(Introduction)(Dial.1)(Dial.2)(Dial.3)(Dial.4)(Dial.5)(Dial.6)(Dial.7)(Dial.8)DIALOGUE 9(Dial.10)

(Dial.11)(Dial.12)(Dial.13)(Dial.14)(Dial.15)(Dial.16)(Dial.17)(Dial.18)(Dial.19)(Dial.20)

ABOUT SALVATION

 

DIRTY_C: Can I carry on sinning if I am saved?

CLEAN_C: What are you saved from if you carry on sinning?

DIRTY_C: I thought I would never go to hell if I am saved, even when I sin again. Being saved for me means I am going to heaven to live with God forever. It must be a wonderful experience! I would hate myself if I ever got lost. I think I would blame God for it as well.

CLEAN_C: Well, I think you don’t have the correct vision about salvation at all. What kind of salvation is this that saves only from hell? Genuine salvation saves us from sin.

DIRTY_C: You want me to be fully honest about this?

CLEAN_C: I wouldn’t want anything else!

DIRTY_C: Sometimes I feel certain doubts about this whole issue of being saved. I can’t think of myself as saved sometimes. I don’t know, but it bothers me greatly. There are strong doubts that hit me hard. The worst about it all is that I don’t know how to answer those doubts. Some days I really doubt that I will ever sing in heaven with the angels and live around there forever.

CLEAN_C: If even people who are right with God can be hit by a sharp arrow of a poisonous doubt, how much more those who aren’t right with God! However, in case you don’t enter heaven, it shall be only because you have not been saved of something else here on earth. There must be some sin from which you have not been saved. We cannot afford to die in our sins. Hell is not what we are saved from. Hell is just the place where unsaved people will go to and heaven is the place where already saved people shall go. Hell is a horrible place of inner emptiness. If, however, we are indeed saved from our sins and from self, there is nothing hell can do to rob you out of heaven!

DIRTY_C: You believe I have solid reasons to have these doubts? Should I doubt this way, then?

CLEAN_C: If we doubt when we need to doubt - if we doubt a lie for example - surely those kinds of doubts are good. Those doubts are faith. A heart which believes truth causes us to doubt lies easily. However, we cannot doubt truth. If we do, it means we believe lies. If you can doubt lies, you are a believer.

DIRTY_C: What do you mean by that? If I doubt, how can I be a believer?

CLEAN_C: A liar or a sinner shall always breed doubts about truth and shall have a inclination to rely upon lies. A truthful, saved man shall be the opposite of that: he shall be inclined to believe truth and be doubtful every time a lying arrow hits his heart.

DIRTY_C: How so? This is confusing for me.

CLEAN_C: Whoever believes truth easily, will doubt any lie just as easily. It will depend what kind of heart we have and whether we walk with God or not. I can agree that a doubt towards any lie isn’t yet a firm stand against it. But, it is a good thing to be able to doubt a lie. It is a good thing to start with. Doubting, however, is wavering and wavering can cause us to balance between two thoughts – sometimes, between opposing thoughts! One can say that, at least, doubting a lie is not the same as believing it. Neither is it the same as doubting a truth.

DIRTY_C: The only thing that happens to me is that I fear to be deceived about many things. Suppose I believe I am on my way to heaven and when I come to judgment day I am thrown out? I wouldn’t want that to happen to me! 

CLEAN_C: I understand. However, even if I understand what you mean, it is true that if truth abounds in you, if God’s life overflows from inside, you can’t possibly breed doubts in your heart concerning heaven and hell. You will just know where you are heading to, and by living with God in the proper fullness He promised, takes all fear away. It is good that you are aware of these doubts now. It gives you a reason to fix your life the way you should fix it. It also gives you time to do so. However, you cannot remain in those doubts. The assurance God gives is much stronger than any doubt. It is so assuring that you can look any doubt in eyes and face it openly. On the other hand, if you are drowning at sea you cannot breed doubts about the dry tree or the board that is floating nearby, even if hits your head. You must be able to trust what comes to rescue you. You cannot doubt it only because it hits you.

DIRTY_C: How could anyone have doubts if a dry tree hits you at high sea?

CLEAN_C: That is what I have been trying to put through to you. You cannot doubt God and neither His words only because they hit you. The Bible says, “Yet they did not listen to Me, nor bow down their ear, but hardened their neck”. “I struck you … yet you did not turn to Me, says the Lord…”. “For the people do not turn to Him who strikes them, nor do they seek the Lord of Hosts”. It is good that you breed doubts against drowning, but not against the piece of wood that strikes you. In fact, you should ask yourself if drowning in sin is what you have been created for. Can you afford to walk on with a stained conscience having Jesus so close by to cleanse you from it thoroughly? Why resent conviction if you are not clean yet? Unclean people are lost people and lost people should feel lost and not assured.

DIRTY_C: Now you are aiming at me again. It seems every time I say something, you turn my own words against me. I like talking to you, but every time I go away from you I have more doubts and fewer assurances. Your assured attitude also annoys me.

CLEAN_C: I am sure you would feel assured by my words were your heart and life clean and spotless. You cannot afford to carry on living without making sure about what God has to say concerning your life. Can you? There is no reason for you to carry on doubting these matters. I am forced to believe there are certain things you wish to hold on to, or which you will not give up for the sake of eternal life; or maybe you are afraid to reveal certain sins to people and to God. It seems to me the kind of doubts you are having are not mere temptations to doubt truth at all. It seems it is a deeper problem, a serious one. I usually say it is a root problem. I think your house is crumbling down because its foundations are very weak. If a tree has problems in its roots, you cannot look at it the same way you look at it when it has a problem in its leaves only. A sickness in the roots of a tree is very bad and kills the tree. You might have a root problem.

DIRTY_C: What do you mean it seems I have a root problem?

CLEAN_C: The kind of salvation Jesus planned for us does not deal with our external problems only. It solves many things deep within us. It heals the roots. Jesus Himself said, “Blind Pharisee! First cleanse the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of them may be clean also”, Mat.23:26. When our deepest being is treated, surely the appearances shall also change naturally. However, you cannot afford to change the appearances only because it is possible to change appearances only. Jesus will call you a hypocrite if you do that! However, if your heart becomes truthful, it is obvious your mouth shall be taken to express itself in a truthful way as well. The problem must be dealt at the roots of your being. It is there where the healings must occur first. Only then may we ever think of applying the new life outwardly. The fact is that unless God dwells deep in us, our being becomes sick because it cannot live without God and without His fullness. And if we hide any past sin; or hold on to any present sin; or fear to ask for forgiveness to anyone, God shall be absent from our inner being. And our inner being changes only by having God very close to it. If we cleanse our lives thoroughly, God shall return to His throne, which is to say, our hearts.

DIRTY_C: But, don’t we have bad roots in Adam’s sin? How can it be healed?

CLEAN_C: We are still what God created us to be. The knowledge of sin and evil, the experiencing of it in everyday life is what takes many people to believe we are no according to God’s image anymore. However, I believe we are like a mill. If we put stones in a mill, it shall grind stones and we get sand; if we put wheat and corn in it, it shall grind wheat and corn. Our hearts work much the same way. Besides, man is evil only because Goodness (God) has left him. If God returns into us in His fullness, surely things start changing again because we shall grind goodness and love. This is why God says “Come back” when He talks about repentance. It is the absence of God which turns man to evil.

DIRTY_C: I understand. You mean that if God is far off, then we shall believe lies because we are liars by trying to live on as if nothing serious happened having God absent. Is that what you mean?

CLEAN_C: Yes, in part that is what I mean. Because you cannot think of yourself as a liar, you shall not plead guilty at the judgment your conscience sets up against you. The fact that people believe the best things about themselves only shows they have been created with goodness inside them. For example, people never think they shall ever die. They don’t live as if they can die the next moment. It so happens because people have been created with the notion of eternity inside them. “He has made everything beautiful in His time; also He has set eternity in their heart”, Ecc.3:11. However, sin has taken over the creation that man is and is using it against him. Man is lied unto by his own heart. This is why faith can’t be mere believing, but rather believing truth. The natural ability to believe must be turned into the ability to believe truth.

DIRTY_C: I think I understand what you mean.

CLEAN_C: In other words, you may find yourself a reliable person, a truthful being and, yet, you might be lying to yourself. Many postpone confessing their sins because they simply don’t believe they can die or that they are bad. People live as if they won’t die right away. That is why we should attend funerals sometimes and ask ourselves how many of them thought they would die and be buried. It shall make us wise. Man simply postpones, avoids or fights against exposing His own sins and will rather highlight others’ sins and the dangers others incur. Man just doesn’t believe of himself the same things he is capable of believing of others. Man just can’t think he is the one who must be saved from his sins. In fact, we must expose our sins, failures and whatever needs to be lighted. We should be transparent all the time, whether we are good or bad. Hiding was the first instinct Adam and Eve had. So, exposing must be the first thing we must do to get saved and fully restored. Sin, when hit by a powerful light, simply dies on the spot along with its guilt. No sin is ever able to resist such a death if it is thoroughly and fully exposed. And if temptations to sin come, we must know sin won’t survive in a heart which is naturally transparent and wholly in the light where all can be seen.

DIRTY_C: You mean, I must put everything in the light to have a chance to overcome every sin in me? I must do the opposite of what Adam did?

CLEAN_C: Yes, that is what I mean. And if you do the opposite of what Adam did, you can no more say you are like Adam, can you? Then, by the fruit that sort of life bears we shall assuredly know we are saved from sin. I agree it is rather strange to people at first, especially to those who have never lived in the light that way, by being themselves all the time. It could happen that they resent light in the first stages of their new lives. It is not easy to live naturally in a way you are not used to and which you do not wish to trust. “Also, no one having drunk old wine immediately desires the new, for he says, ‘The old one is better’”, Luke 5:39. But, the lack of experience on goodness in man does not justify the rejection he makes. Saul ended up in hell long after he had experienced the fullness of God.  

DIRTY_C: What is the new wine and the old wine Jesus talked about here?

CLEAN_C: Christ uses a figure of speech to explain better what really goes on inside a man in whom light has shined suddenly. He is talking about the old ways man has been used to and the new ways he must drink from by starting to be fully obedient. Christ talks about it as something that is really inside us and from which we must drink. It is something that is really there and does not need to be forced to be there. Any conduct should always be a mere expression of those inner realities that go on inside man. We should not look at light as accusations, but rather as salvation hitting us.

DIRTY_C: I understand. In your view, it is wrong to put on a smile on our face if our hearts are not smiling. You mean it is wrong to force ourselves to be something we aren’t for real. Is that it? Is it so wrong? My pastor says we must try harder and harder to love when we cannot love the right way.

CLEAN_C: It is very bad to be a hypocrite. However, if you are pure inside, there won’t be anything wrong with trying to live it out fully. However, it is not the same thing as forcing a conduct you should have naturally. Lying about what we are is what makes sin survive. If you are sinful, you must show what you really are. At least the great shame it brings upon you may cause you to seek out a solution for your sin. Sin cannot be seen as a problem without a solution while we are on earth in this present life. Paul talks a lot about becoming holy in this present life. That is what the good news is all about. However, we should never be ashamed to reveal our hearts fully if God is really at work in us. God renews us every moment we spent near Him and we should be able to trust the work is trying to accomplish within. Before being transformed, our minds have been thinking the way darkness has pressed upon us. Darkness is very demanding upon lost souls. It demands from people that they hide and die under that heavy yoke. It makes people weird, weary and tired. But, as soon as God starts to work in us, we should renew our minds about this to attain the truthful point of view concerning the revealing our whole heart and deeds. Our ways should change. We need not hide anymore. Everything is new. We should reconcile ourselves with a new reality which we do not need to hide as we did before. We should feel at home with light where all is exposed and visible. We should never again become ashamed to show and to reveal what is going on inside our hearts. Before light came to shine in us, we tried to be good or to look good while our hearts were bad. It tired us out because it is a stressful matter. It’s hard work to live a lie and to hide. It’s hard because we must always figure out ways to conceal ourselves or to look good so we wouldn’t be rejected. If God changes us for real - from deep inside our hearts - then trying to be good when we can easily afford to be ourselves is a big strain for our souls. It amounts to lying to ourselves about something we know. Imitating goodness when we have no need to do so, stands as the other woman for a married man. The new nature God gives us does not allow us to lie about ourselves anymore. It just doesn’t work that way and it can’t be blessed either. It means we are waiting for or trying to fabricate something we already have inside for free. It is a gift from faith. However, it must be real. It must be there for real.

DIRTY_C: Is that the will of God for every person in this world? Everyone should be that new?

CLEAN_C: Yes, of course. No one should be anything else but new. And the expectation of hope causes us to be changed from within rather than to force ourselves only to appear changed on the outside. Water flows naturally. The New Life flows just as naturally. No works shall ever achieve the perfection of being ourselves while in Christ - as long as we are found in Him for real. If we are separated from Him by any sin, we may not deceive ourselves to the point of believing we are in Him. That kind of expectation to receive from the Lord what He is - when He is real in us - will cause us to fly high and be so light we won’t feel any yoke on us anymore. But, it must be real.

DIRTY_C: I am stunned with the amount of things you are saying and which make sense to me. So, what is salvation all about then? I don’t wish to be confused about this because my pastor does not have the same views you have. My head is whining and I am wavering between two different points of view. There is some knot in my mind I am unable to untie. Please, help me.

CLEAN_C: Someone said once all we need to do to have that knot untied, is to sit still so God can work freely and unhindered to loosen the knot we have made. Then shall we come to the conclusion that He is God indeed. Anyway, Jesus warned that you might not love the new wine at first. And one of the reasons for us not to like the new wine at first is to have a higher regard for the opinions of someone we respect than we have of God’s words of truth. You should make an effort, at first, to drink that wine. Later on, it shall become a natural thing to do so. Your spirit shall agree with it sooner or later. Obedience makes our hearts assured about truth. Obeying lies causes the opposite effect on us. Don’t allow the old mind and the old ways to distract your mind with deriving thoughts and doubts. If you can try to do this and to put it all into practice, you shall easily know how easy it is to fulfil God’s laws and commandments. “If your eye (the way you see things) causes you to stumble, pluck it off and throw it far from you”.

DIRTY_C: I will try!

CLEAN_C: It seems that God saves people who already consider themselves as His people. It says in the Bible God saves “His people” from sin.

DIRTY_C: What do you mean? Aren’t His people already saved ones?

CLEAN_C: You sound like Nicodemus asking things which should already be easy for you to understand at this point! When the angel appeared to Joseph, the husband of Mary, he said God would save His people. We also read that Jesus so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him should not get lost. It means they should be saved after that and not get lost. They can be lost.

DIRTY_C: And why does the Bible says God came to save the whole world? Does it mean I still belong to the world? Or do I still need to be saved?

CLEAN_C: Jesus is able to save the whole world. But, it does not mean the whole world shall be saved, since we are saved from the world itself. We are saved from it. That shall happen if we become His people. Then God takes us from there into full salvation.

DIRTY_C: What does Jesus save us from then? Oh, the knot is getting bigger and tighter! It seems you don’t allow me to think I am already saved – not even for a moment!

CLEAN_C: I agree people have many strange views about this whole issue. Some of these views are even based on what they understand of the Bible. It is not what I am saying that is confusing you at all. The thoughts you had about it is what is confusing you mostly. The old wine is still attracting to you. You need to start to listen to God for a change.

DIRTY_C: Please, carry on. Don’t worry about the knot in my mind. I will try to be quiet so it loosens a bit.

CLEAN_C: If you enquire from the Lord about this, you shall hear the same things in a better way. You shall hear about it in a way you shall easily understand. But, do not dare to see it as accusations. Then, it shall be a confirmation to you that what I am trying to tell you is true. Jesus teaches us for real. You should rely on that and have faith in Him. Rather believe Him. There is no pastor like Him. Fulfillers of the Bible often believe the Bible does not need interpreters or interpretations. The truth shall be understood easily enough by anyone who obeys promptly. The Bible shall make sense to them and to them only. It will a explanation of what is already happening inside them.

DIRTY_C: Ok, I got you. You are trying to tell me I should obey no matter what. You are aiming at me again. I understand. It is true I don’t always understand the Bible very well and neither am I in a state to obey it promptly. Maybe you are right. I should be obedient to it rather than be a mere enquirer after truth. It feels good to me to question everything you say because I can understand it better afterwards. You explain better when I bother you.

CLEAN_C: I am so glad you question everything!

DIRTY_C: Please, explain more to me.

CLEAN_C: I will try. It is very easy to taste truth. May God help us. Let us see if God is able to untie the knot you have made.

DIRTY_C: I surely hope He can!

CLEAN_C: First of all, Jesus saves those who already believe on Him. It means He saves His people. It does not mean those who believe in Him are saved, but rather that they shall be saved. If you believe a synagogue or a church more than Him, it is not the same as believing Him. It can’t be.

DIRTY_C: But, the churches talk about God, don’t they?

CLEAN_C: Surely they do. It is only expected that they do. The unexpected part is the devil is allowed in as a member in most churches nowadays. He takes people to dance, to flirt and to believe whatever they want. Jesus said “Follow Me”. He did not say follow a certain doctrine or a specific church. Unless you follow Him for real, you won’t make it. You might even follow Him into a church, but you can never afford to miss the whole point and not follow Him.

DIRTY_C: I see.

CLEAN_C: Concerning salvation and having in mind that only those who believe in Him can be saved of any kind of sin or temptation in the present and in the future, we must ask openly what He saves from. We should never dare to merely accept a general, undefined kind of salvation. Jesus saves specifically from sin. He saves believers from sin. We shall be made free by experiencing what He is. That truthful reality shall make us free of anything – of any kind of bondage one can think of! The order of events is: faith and then freedom and salvation. If the whole idea of being saved should ever start to make sense to any of us, we should see for ourselves what Jesus saves us from. The salvation He offers is a unique kind of salvation from self, from the world and from sin. We cease to be slaves through the knowledge of God and by experiencing Jesus and truth for real. That shall happen only through a genuine experience of the fullness of God Himself. He needs to be inside us for real and, also, to walk with us as we eat, sleep or talk. Whatever we do, should be done through Him.

DIRTY_C: Where in the Bible do we read it is from sin we are saved?

CLEAN_C: In many places of it. I believe that is the issue that the Bible mostly talks about. In the beginning of the New Testament we read about it expressly: “He shall save His people from their sins”, Mat. 1:21. Our sins are the things we mainly need to be saved from. They are responsible for the lack of inner peace, for the lack of love, for the lack of faith and even for the lack of real hope in us. They are also responsible for the presence of false hopes we may still entertain. If we are not saved from all our sins - if it does not happen for real - we shall always be doubting and lifeless.

(Introduction)(Dial.1)(Dial.2)(Dial.3)(Dial.4)(Dial.5)(Dial.6)(Dial.7)(Dial.8)DIALOGUE 9(Dial.10)

(Dial.11)(Dial.12)(Dial.13)(Dial.14)(Dial.15)(Dial.16)(Dial.17)(Dial.18)(Dial.19)(Dial.20)